Replot in epslatex terminal

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Replot in epslatex terminal

Gael Varoquaux
    Replot in epslatex terminal acts exactly like in postscript terminal
: it creates a new page of the epsfile. But this page never gets
displayed by latex. Wouldn't it be a more consistent option to have
"replot" act like in the x11, or the png terminal ?

    Gaël


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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Hans-Bernhard Bröker
Gaël Varoquaux wrote:
>     Replot in epslatex terminal acts exactly like in postscript terminal
> : it creates a new page of the epsfile.

It must not do that.  EPS files by their very definition cannot
have multiple pages.

 > But this page never gets
> displayed by latex.

It shouldn't --- it's not allowed to be there.

 > Wouldn't it be a more consistent option to have
> "replot" act like in the x11, or the png terminal ?

It cannot act like the X11 terminal.  It has to act like (I hope) png
does: ignore all further plot commands after the first one until the
output is closed and (another one) re-opened.


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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Daniel J Sebald
Hans-Bernhard Bröker wrote:

> Gaël Varoquaux wrote:
>
>>     Replot in epslatex terminal acts exactly like in postscript terminal
>> : it creates a new page of the epsfile.
>
>
> It must not do that.  EPS files by their very definition cannot
> have multiple pages.
>
>  > But this page never gets
>
>> displayed by latex.
>
>
> It shouldn't --- it's not allowed to be there.
>
>  > Wouldn't it be a more consistent option to have
>
>> "replot" act like in the x11, or the png terminal ?
>
>
> It cannot act like the X11 terminal.  It has to act like (I hope) png
> does: ignore all further plot commands after the first one until the
> output is closed and (another one) re-opened.

How about keep overwriting the old one?  That way, if a person makes a mistake,
s/he can retype the command without having go through the "set output; set term
...; set output ..." sequence again.

Dan


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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Gael Varoquaux
In reply to this post by Hans-Bernhard Bröker
On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 10:27:48PM +0200, Hans-Bernhard Bröker wrote:
> It cannot act like the X11 terminal.  It has to act like (I hope) png
> does: ignore all further plot commands after the first one until the
> output is closed and (another one) re-opened.

    It doesn't seem to. I just tried, giving gnuplot two plot commands,
and when I open the file with gv I can select from the menu "page" the
entry "next", and switch from my first plot to my second.

--
    Gaël


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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Hans-Bernhard Bröker
Gaël Varoquaux wrote:

>     It doesn't seem to. I just tried, giving gnuplot two plot commands,
> and when I open the file with gv I can select from the menu "page" the
> entry "next", and switch from my first plot to my second.

That's a bug then, which needs to be fixed.  Off-hand I'd guess it to
have been introduced when the pslatex and epslatex stuff was merged.



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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Hans-Bernhard Bröker
In reply to this post by Daniel J Sebald
Daniel J Sebald wrote:

> How about keep overwriting the old one?  That way, if a person makes a
> mistake, s/he can retype the command without having go through the "set
> output; set term ...; set output ..." sequence again.

I would tend to value internal consistency with other drivers more
important than that --- the PNG/GD driver family established "typical"
gnuplot behaviour, which any new drivers faced with the same problem
should follow.

I'm a little surprised that "postscript eps" mode doesn't behave
properly either --- it manages to avoid actually outputting %%Page DSCs,
but still allows multiple /showpage instances in the same file.  I
suspect that's a direct violation of the EPSF file definition.  I.e. the
problem is bigger then it originally appeared.



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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Daniel J Sebald
Hans-Bernhard Bröker wrote:
> I'm a little surprised that "postscript eps" mode doesn't behave
> properly either --- it manages to avoid actually outputting %%Page DSCs,
> but still allows multiple /showpage instances in the same file.  I
> suspect that's a direct violation of the EPSF file definition.

Probably is.  But most drivers probably handle such a case in a fairly graceful
way because it isn't too difficult to deal with.

Dan


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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Ethan Merritt
In reply to this post by Daniel J Sebald
On Thursday 23 June 2005 01:52 pm, Daniel J Sebald wrote:
> Hans-Bernhard Bröker wrote:
> >
> > It cannot act like the X11 terminal.  It has to act like (I hope) png
> > does: ignore all further plot commands after the first one until the
> > output is closed and (another one) re-opened.

The png terminal does not act that way, nor should it.
My normal mode of generating and viewing png output is
        set term png
        set output '| display png;-'

Then I can view the output from successive plot commands interactively
by hitting <space> in the display window.  If I want to save a particular
one to disk, then I hit "save" instead.

> How about keep overwriting the old one?  That way, if a person makes a mistake,
> s/he can retype the command without having go through the "set output; set term
> ...; set output ..." sequence again.

Maybe. I would like to use eps and gv through a pipe
        set output '| gv -'
similarly to the way I use png+display, but unfortunately gv is not
happy with that.  So a compromise would indeed be to continually
overwrite the same output file, and view successive images in gv
by hitting the re-read button.  But I don't immediately see how I
would keep the two ends of the process in sync as easily as the
png+display case.



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Mailstop 357742
University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195


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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Ethan Merritt
In reply to this post by Hans-Bernhard Bröker
On Thursday 23 June 2005 02:31 pm, Hans-Bernhard Bröker wrote:
>
> I'm a little surprised that "postscript eps" mode doesn't behave
> properly either --- it manages to avoid actually outputting %%Page DSCs,
> but still allows multiple /showpage instances in the same file.  I
> suspect that's a direct violation of the EPSF file definition.

The PostScript standard says:

  The showpage operator is permitted in EPS files because it is present
  in so many PostScript language files [...] The application importing
  the EPS file is responsible for redefining showpage [...] according
  to the following code segment:  /showpage {} def

As a result, you can have as many showpages in an EPSF file as you
like, because they are all redefined to null.  I don't see any specific
mention of %%Page in connection with EPSF files.



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Mailstop 357742
University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195


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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Ethan Merritt
In reply to this post by Hans-Bernhard Bröker
On Thursday 23 June 2005 02:18 pm, Hans-Bernhard Bröker wrote:
> Gaël Varoquaux wrote:
>
> >     It doesn't seem to. I just tried, giving gnuplot two plot commands,
> > and when I open the file with gv I can select from the menu "page" the
> > entry "next", and switch from my first plot to my second.
>
> That's a bug then, which needs to be fixed.  Off-hand I'd guess it to
> have been introduced when the pslatex and epslatex stuff was merged.

So far as I know, it has always behaved that way. Certainly 4.0 did
(I just confirmed this). I consider it a feature, not a bug.
You are free to save each plot to a new file if you like. But you also
have the option of saving a sequence of plots to a single file. Later
you can edit the individual plots in a tool like Illustrator, and save
the ones you want to individual *.eps files for inclusion in a document.  

--
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Mailstop 357742
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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Gael Varoquaux
On Thu, Jun 23, 2005 at 05:22:08PM -0700, Ethan Merritt wrote:
> I consider it a feature, not a bug.

    Well I think that for the epslatex terminal it is a bug : what's
printed by the replot command never gets shown. And for the eps terminal
it is a very counter-intuitive feature that will trick many users. I
think this beahve should at least be controled by a terminal option and
turned off by default.

--
    Gaël


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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Hans-Bernhard Bröker
In reply to this post by Ethan Merritt
Ethan Merritt wrote:
> On Thursday 23 June 2005 02:18 pm, Hans-Bernhard Bröker wrote:
>>Gaël Varoquaux wrote:
>>>    It doesn't seem to. I just tried, giving gnuplot two plot commands,
>>>and when I open the file with gv I can select from the menu "page" the
>>>entry "next", and switch from my first plot to my second.

> So far as I know, it has always behaved that way. Certainly 4.0 did
> (I just confirmed this). I consider it a feature, not a bug.

It may be a (dubious) feature in "postscript eps", but in epslatex, it
cannot be anything else but a bug to behave like that.

> you can edit the individual plots in a tool like Illustrator,

I'm quite sure Illustrator can't figure out epslatex output.


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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Ethan Merritt
In reply to this post by Ethan Merritt
On Friday 24 June 2005 08:44 am, Hans-Bernhard Bröker wrote:
> Ethan Merritt wrote:
>
> > As a result, you can have as many showpages in an EPSF file as you
> > like, because they are all redefined to null.  I don't see any specific
> > mention of %%Page in connection with EPSF files.
>
> It wouldn't be --- %%Page is not part of the PostScript language proper,
> but rather of the DSC extensions.  
> That's why it's formatted like a PostScript comment.

Thanks for that bit of jargon, since it lets me find the relevant
sections of the PostScript spec.

The example EPSF files in the PostScript Language Reference Manual
do use %%Page operators.  It is explicitly allowed, as part of the
Document Structure Convention, for EPSF and EPSI files.

On Friday 24 June 2005 12:29 am, Gaël Varoquaux wrote:
>
>     Well I think that for the epslatex terminal it is a bug : what's
> printed by the replot command never gets shown.

It may well be undesirable for the epslatex terminal. I defer to those
who actual use this terminal type.  

> And for the eps terminal
> it is a very counter-intuitive feature that will trick many users. I
> think this beahve should at least be controled by a terminal option and
> turned off by default.

But for plain *.eps output generated by 'set term post eps', so far as I
understand Adobe's reference documentation, it is allowed.

Existing viewers (ghostscript, gv) handle the presence of multiple %%Page
elements by displaying one screen per %%Page in an eps file.
My current PostScript printer (Xerox Phaser 8400) handles them by printing
them all, but without a page-feed in between.  So the individual
%%BoundingBox lines allow multiple plots per sheet of paper, just as in
a full *.ps file.

"Counter-intuitive" obviously has different meanings for each person.
To me it is intuitive that a *.eps file is the same as a *.ps file
except that it allows being embedded in another document. I realize there
is also provision for having an embedded preview image bitmap in the
*.eps case, but I rarely encounter these.  I imagine this was an
accommodation to the historically limited support for displaying the actual
PostScript contents under MS Windows.

Anyhow, I would argue against changing the current (and long-standing)
default behavior of 'set term post eps'.  For epslatex, I have no
opinion one way or the other.

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Mailstop 357742
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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Gael Varoquaux
On Fri, Jun 24, 2005 at 09:56:43AM -0700, Ethan Merritt wrote:
> "Counter-intuitive" obviously has different meanings for each person.

    Sure, then lets make this behaviour obvious by stressing it in the
help of the postscript terminal. As for the epslatex terminal, I really
think it should be turned off : it took me a while to understand what
was happening when I discovered this and I am sure many users would just
have given up.

    Gaël


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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Ethan Merritt
On Friday 24 June 2005 10:02 am, Gaël Varoquaux wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2005 at 09:56:43AM -0700, Ethan Merritt wrote:
> > "Counter-intuitive" obviously has different meanings for each person.
>
>     Sure, then lets make this behaviour obvious by stressing it in the
> help of the postscript terminal.

I am reminded of a request that went by on either the newsgroup or
the mailing list a while ago.  Re-casting it in the light of the
current discussion, it would be to create a new variant of 'set output'
that specifies a function to generate a filename, rather than the
filename itself.

        FILENAME(plotno) = sprintf("./plot_%02d.eps",plotno)
        set output sequential FILENAME

Each plot command would increment plotno and trigger the creation of a
new output file.

No, I don't have a full implementation in my head. I'm not sure
what difficulties might crop up.  But it would provide a
terminal-independent solution to the current problem.
 


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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Petr Mikulik
> FILENAME(plotno) = sprintf("./plot_%02d.eps",plotno)
> set output sequential FILENAME
>
> Each plot command would increment plotno and trigger the creation of a
> new output file.

New gnuplot global variables PLOT_NUMBER and PAGE_NUMBER?

---
PM



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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Ethan Merritt
On Friday 24 June 2005 10:51 am, Petr Mikulik wrote:
> > FILENAME(plotno) = sprintf("./plot_%02d.eps",plotno)
> > set output sequential FILENAME
> >
> > Each plot command would increment plotno and trigger the creation of a
> > new output file.
>
> New gnuplot global variables PLOT_NUMBER and PAGE_NUMBER?

You mean, so that you can at any time reset the sequence, or force the
next plot to have a particular number?
Sure. That could be part of it, if you like.


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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Petr Mikulik
>> New gnuplot global variables PLOT_NUMBER and PAGE_NUMBER?
>
> You mean, so that you can at any time reset the sequence, or force the
> next plot to have a particular number?
> Sure. That could be part of it, if you like.

Those variables would be incremented by gnuplot at each "plot" or
multiplot+plot, respectively.

---
PM



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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Ethan Merritt
On Friday 24 June 2005 11:25 am, Petr Mikulik wrote:
> >> New gnuplot global variables PLOT_NUMBER and PAGE_NUMBER?
> >
> > You mean, so that you can at any time reset the sequence, or force the
> > next plot to have a particular number?
> > Sure. That could be part of it, if you like.
>
> Those variables would be incremented by gnuplot at each "plot" or
> multiplot+plot, respectively.

Yes, of course.  I understood that. But I though your point was that
making them visible to the user allows you to change them explicitly.
For instance, if you were to make a mistake while creating a sequence of
plots interactively you could do PLOT_NUMBER = PLOT_NUMBER -1
before fixing the error and replotting.  This would overwrite the
erroneous file containing the erroneous file and then continue on
in the same sequence as before.

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Re: Replot in epslatex terminal

Petr Mikulik
> Yes, of course.  I understood that. But I though your point was that
> making them visible to the user allows you to change them explicitly.
> erroneous file containing the erroneous file and then continue on
> in the same sequence as before.

Yes.

---
PM


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